crying = blackmail?

[anotheranon]

Last night I got an email - one of those things that circulates between friends, like it does. The title: "Guys Rules". Most of this was a list of stereotypes about men that while unflattering (and, often grossly inaccurate) are largely inoffensive (guys never ask for directions, can't remember anniversaries, football Sunday is inevitable). But one jumped out at me: "Crying is blackmail."

I know the idea is out there outside of this email - one of my prior supervisors was vocal that he viewed women's tears as manipulation(!) My friend didn't send me the email to deliberately offend me, but that one just stuck in my craw not only because it is so outrageously dismissive, but because IMHO it's absolutely not true!

I'd rather have teeth pulled that cry. I'd rather have them pulled along with my toenails than cry in front of another person. I learned early on that little girls who cry get a lot MORE shit at school, so I trained myself out of it, to a large degree. I trained myself so well that I often can't cry when I KNOW it would be a much needed release.

In other words, if ever you see me cry, it's because I absolutely, positively CANNOT stop myself, and if I was ever accused of crying to manipulate someone I'd be livid.

Of course, that's my own experience, so I have to ask: can women - ANY woman - really "turn on the waterworks" at will, for whatever reason? I don't mean covering their face with their hands and "faking" it, I mean genuine, rolling tears that keep on coming.

Also, am I the only one whose ever heard anyone say "crying is blackmail" or similar "in the wild" so to speak? If so, what was the context? Where/how did this myth get circulation in the first place?

Just to muddy the waters further, I'm willing to consider that the ability/need to cry might be hormonally based; last week I was reading a blog entry by a female-to-male (FTM) transexual who was talking about the difficulties of crying after transition (I'll post a link if I can find it. As of posting, I've searched for half an hour for the post with no luck). I'm very resistant to the idea that gender/hormones govern everything we do so tightly and absolutely, but I'm putting it out there for discussion.

And though I know I'll be irritated if I get a "yes" to this - does anyone reading believe that women can cry at will?

And yes, I'm aware that the plural of "anecdote" isn't "data" - I'm just curious.

Comments

Re: I confess...

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Like I said - I can accept that people can learn to trigger themselves to cry, particularly when acting when it might be required. And that's cool. It's the idea that someone might cry at will to get their way that irks me - not just because it's insincere, but because it fuels this "crying as blackmail" meme that causes any and all tears to be written off as not being caused by real distress.

Not that I think you'd fake crying to get your way in some trivial dispute - somehow I think you're of the school that would rather get your teeth pulled than break down in front of someone else :)

Re: I confess...

[semmie17.livejournal.com]

There's an age range to this, too. A 40-year old woman crying at a business meeting to "get her way" will only get herself fired. Most teachers are immune to tears after a few years of teaching. So where is this so-called crying taking place? At home.

Some men might have to be "cried at", if we look at the situation from the other side. Some men are so completely obtuse and selfish that the only way to get through to them that a woman's feelings matter, is through waterworks. It's an emotional wakeup tool, used for attention and, if timed correctly, embarrassment of the male.

There are two ways in which we choose NOT to use tools: first, if the tool does not work; and second, if we don't need the tool. If crying doesn't work, then a woman won't use it. But, too, if a man is sensitive enough to a woman's desires, then there's no need to use the crying-as-weapon, right? *ponders idea*

Re: I confess...

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Some men might have to be "cried at", if we look at the situation from the other side. Some men are so completely obtuse and selfish that the only way to get through to them that a woman's feelings matter, is through waterworks.

See, I don't get that. If a guy is so blind that he won't acknowledge freely stated feelings unless they're accompanied by tears, my inclination would be "well, fuck 'em then,", as I refuse to go through the motions of crying when I'm not upset enough to cry, just to get through to them. Such a person isn't worth the effort, IMHO.

You talk about being in situations where one might need to use the tool of crying, but my solution is to just not be in that situation.

Re: I confess...

[semmie17.livejournal.com]

But... you're (presumably) married to an enlightened 21st century male living in an urban city area, and who is not threatened by intelligent, educated, aggressive women.

Most males are the opposite -- rural, highly threatened by women's intelligence, education, or any shows of aggression. Women who have to live with these males (for lack of their own opportunities or education or social background) have to deal with them the best they can. Not every woman is going to be enlightened enough to have a feminist solution "I choose not to be in that situation." Because of my marriage, I was trapped in an unhealthy situation for a long time, and many women are in that same place. How do they survive? They use everything at their disposal, including feminine tricks, manipulation, mothering, and tears.

Feminism is not widespread, nor is it even across all classes and regions. It exists mostly among upper middle-class and upper class educated elite, but for the rest of the planet -- it's a man's world.

Re: I confess...

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

I quite agree that if you're in a situation where manipulation is your only tool, that you're going to rely on it heavily. I do need to be reminded occasionally that not every woman, everywhere is free to get up and go if their husband/boyfriend is a pig :P

It is sad you had to resort to manipulation for so much of your marriage. It's good you got out :)

Re: I confess...

[semmie17.livejournal.com]

And that's what I found to be the most telling about the "guy's rules" that Katie sent out -- it reflected a true approach to men who are in that rural, male-domination environment. In that environment, men do what they want, and women have to cope because there isn't family, educational, or social structures that will allow them to progress. The thing that gets me is -- these women don't even know that their husband/boyfriends are PIGS! They think the men are perfectly normal, and so they cope with the effects of this presumption.

Guys like Mikey, Tim, and your hubby are mutants in the good X-men HomoSuperior sort of meaning. They deserve lots of kisses. :))))