size problems

[anotheranon]

So, I'm a D cup.

Please, no lecherous or envious comments from the peanut gallery because that's not why I mention this in a public forum. No, it's because said dimensions, aesthetically pleasing or not, are a pill to dress around.

Most designers and vendors make women's tops assuming a set proportion between bust and waist measurements that winds up usually accomodating a B cup. This ratio is still assumed as sizes get larger (even though weight gain = cup size gain for many women).

All well and good, if one is actually a B cup. If you're not, you're stuck with having something either fit across the chest and bag everywhere else, or fit everywhere else and either flatten, strain, or gap across the bust. A bit of spandex in knit tops alleviates some of this, but I haven't worn a button-down in over a year because none of them fit anymore (one of the hazards of going off Depo).

Do not even start me about jackets.

FWIW, most commercial pattern makers assume similar measurements, so when making something for myself I either need to consider styles that "work" with my measurements, or add the extra step of draping and/or fitting to make it work. This takes time which I don't always have or want to spend - sometimes you just want to cut the fabric and get results!

Sadly, this limits the number of cute/fashionable tops I can wear to those with a bit of spandex. I don't particularly care for unfitted tops because my broad shoulders + chest = A. Non looks like a linebacker with spindly legs. Generally speaking this isn't the aesthetic impact I wish to make :/ This would admittedly likely bother me less if I 1) hadn't become accustomed to being able to buy off the rack in smaller days, and 2) didn't have a number of work shirts I can no longer wear for this reason.

So what to do?

Happily, some vendors (like Bravissimo.com) are starting to make shirts to accomodate a variety of bust/waist ratios. So are some pattern companies. I don't see this as a widespread trend, as creating made-to-order items for a three-dimensional shape that is so widely variable isn't economically feasible, but it's a nice start.

Meanwhile, I need to learn to alter purchased items for best advantage. Knit tops are easier because of stretch, but harder because they have fewer seams that can be altered. Tailored will be tricky, if it's possible at all (shoulder yokes, augh!)

Comments

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

No lecherous comments and definitely no envy, just empathy from one buxom woman to another. Thanks for the handy links -- I'm a DD or a DDD cup so, yeah, I feel your pain.

[psquelly.livejournal.com]

I was just gonna say the same thing. Even at my smallest - size 8 in jeans- I was still a 42DD. Not an off the rack body at all. Thanks for the links.

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

When I was at my smallest, size 8-10 in jeans/dresses, etc. I was a 36 C/D. Not quite as large but hardly flat chested. Being 5 ft 2 and having an hourglass figure wasn't an off the rack body either.

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

I know it's cold comfort, but FWIW, busty women wear corsets and most historical periods much better than the current fashionable ideal does.

Not much help with modern clothes, but there it is.

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

Which is why I *like* corsets and more historical/romantic/gothic/whatever fashions more than current fashions. I just look better in them. If we were in Victorian/Edwardian times, I'd be as hot as Lily Langtry! (Only a foot shorter)

Yo! Downthread....

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

From jlsjlsjls: check out her comment (http://anotheranon.livejournal.com/623286.html?thread=1568438#t1568438) about the petites patterns that assume D cup right off the bat - sounds like they might suit you perfectly :)

Re: Yo! Downthread....

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you! :)

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'm 5'9 so that helps even things out a bit.

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

No crass comments here either. I'm familiar with the B-cup standard in clothing and patterns (which has always struck me as ludicrous since C-cup seems to be the most common size/proportion in the real world).

I'll have a flip through all my back issues of Threads and Australian stitches ... I know I've seen handy tips on alterations for larger cup sizes (will also note any additional pattern companies that go beyond the B-cup)

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Yes - if you can find additional links, please post! I thought I had another pattern company bookmarked, but evidently not..

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

I shall ... I KNOW I've seen other pattern companies offering cup size options. And any fitting/alteration articles shall be photocopied and in the mail to you.

Wanted to address this particularly...

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

I'm familiar with the B-cup standard in clothing and patterns (which has always struck me as ludicrous since C-cup seems to be the most common size/proportion in the real world).

I strongly suspect the "B Cup default" has less to do with occurrence of that proportion in the population and more to do with the fact that it's easier to design for less curvy shapes - I think we had this discussion some time back, you worked in a library with design students who bitched every time they got a model with breasts :P

Re: Wanted to address this particularly...

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

Or hips. Or a waist. Yep, sheer laziness and aversion to "engineering" IS behind most of our fitting problems, but I was being nice today. ;-)

Wouldja believe that the latest issue of Australian Stitches that I purchased earlier this week (and hadn't flipped through until now) is a special shirts/tops issue? Picking up a second copy and popping it into the mail is gonna be far more cost-effective than photocopying (yeah, I know ... I REALLY need to get a scanner ...)

And I was getting frightened at the sudden dearth of pattern ads in the new Threads ... until I came across a large ad at the front for Independent Pattern Companies Alliance ... one stop websurfing for all those nice multi-sized, multi-graded products! :D

Will dig out my back issues 'cause I know A.S. has published a couple of articles on independent pattern designers who think and work outside the sizing box ...

Re: Wanted to address this particularly...

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

You rock muchly, doing the legwork I can't/won't (I really should be taking notes right now :P)!

Re: Wanted to address this particularly...

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

Well, seeing as I'd purchased new issues of Australian Stitches and Threads earlier this week and they were sitting, unread-yet, on the coffee table, I haven't actually been exerting myself. :p

Re: Wanted to address this particularly...

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

HA! KNEW I'd seen something somewhere! That little back o' the brain niggle never fails (it's frequently bloody slow and stupid, but that's another story). On that Independent Pattern Companies link I gave you, be sure to check out Petite Plus Patterns ... I know you're not after petite but, according to the article about the company (Australian Stitches, vol. 12, no. 6), ALL of the patterns are drafted for D-cup rather than B-cup ... might be worth having one just to have all the pre-packaged engineering to lay over a regular pattern. :-)

Re: Wanted to address this particularly...

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm not a petite, but the tops still might work as I'm rather short-waisted as well. I'm not seeing anything too fashion forward, but good fabrics and cut go a long way towards style.

Re: Wanted to address this particularly...

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

***grins*** No, they're not trendsetters, but I figured that it's easier to add a little length than do all the wretched bust adjustments. :p And, as you said, fabric choice and cut make all the difference (plus any well-fitting base pattern can be jazzed up with neckline/collar/sleeve/hemline/front fastening changes).

I can recall reading another article on a well-endowed south Asian designer whose patterns were geared toward women with a build similar to her own (and she wasn't a petite) ... I'll do some more back-issue flipping tomorrow night and see if I can track down a source for her stuff.

Re: Wanted to address this particularly...

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

Ooops! Almost forgot ... harass your library for the Palmer Pletsch line of Real People books (the newest in the series is "Jackets for Real People")

[nminusone.livejournal.com]

I feel your pain, just not in the same places. ;) Men's fitted shirts do come in a range of proportions, but anything that fits my neck is way too big for my chest and arms. The only shorts that fit my waist and my thighs are "phat" shorts, and come down to mid-calf. "Loose fit" jeans that match my proportions go in and out of style; I was ok for a while but they're harder to find now. The sad thing is I stopped doing weights for my lower body a couple of years ago, and I've *never* done neck exercises, but those parts are still very large. Sadly my biceps, pecs and delts (the 3 most visible "show" muscles) are all quite small by comparison. No career in bodybuilding for me! ;)

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Men do indeed have fitting problems of their own :( I wish I knew how to address this - I have to admit that my experience making/altering men's clothes is very limited :( Any suggestions you or others can share would be welcome!

[nminusone.livejournal.com]

Alas I don't have anything in the way of solutions, other than "Big and Tall" shops can sometimes help. If I was gay I'd be screwed, but as it is I can get away without trying to be too snappy, and that's how I get by. My only real suggestion is that if I know I won't need to button a shirt all the way up I can get one where the neck is too small but which fits better elsewhere. Other than that it just comes down to looking around as much as possible and picking up the odd piece that fits.

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

If you were wealthy I'd say get bespoke shirts (not all tailors are stuffy - see Ozwald Boateng and other young UK tailors), but I know that's impractical but all for the stinking rich :(

[fizzygeek.livejournal.com]

I can sympathize with you, but my problem goes in a different direction (big hips, small bust) . I have managed to find exactly two companies that make bras in a size useful for me (38a for the morbidly curious)

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Yes - the opposite problem presents no end of fitting problems as well :( I'm surprised you can't find more than 2 vendors for 38A though, as IMHO this seems like a fairly regular size - not the most popular perhaps but certainly not unheard of. Both Figleaves.com (http://www.figleaves.com) and Barenecessities.com (http://www.barenecessities.com/) have lots listed for that size (though, of course, whether they have it in stock is another question...)

For the pants.. well, IMHO women's pants suck all around and I've not met many women who can get a pair to fit without lots of (usually depressing) trying on.

Still digging ...

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

Perpetual Patterns: an Australian distributor of independent patterns from Canada and the States. Doesn't name the individual companies (understandable, as they want your business), but I can i.d. a few for you based on mentions in the article in front of me and profiles of the individual pattern companies in other issues.

SW = The Sewing Workshop
R = ReVisions
PP = Purrfection
LH = Loes Hinse
MT = Material Things Pattern Collection (order direct from the designer in B.C. at: ce_podolak@telus.net)
F = Folkwear

Oh, and I've found a well-illustrated article titled "Pattern Alteration for a Full-cup Bust." :-)

Re: Still digging ...

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for posting these!

A suggestion: Once you find everything you're going to find, I think you should post to your own journal. I'll link to you. Then everyone can get the info without plowing through my comments and you'll get the credit for doing the legwork :)

Re: Still digging ...

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

***chuckles*** Actually, I DID start that particular reply in my own LJ, then moved it into the replies in your because of the number of your friends who were following the conversation. But yes, I'll do a consolidation in my own LJ as well. If I ever DO find everything I'm going to post ... Australian Stitches IS a treasure-trove of a magazine (much more focus, and in greater detail, on practicality of fit and construction than Threads) and I keep getting side-tracked re-reading stuff. :p New to the photocopy-the-article pile since that post ... an article on grading shirt patterns and one on altering a pattern for A and AA busts (not what you're after, I know, but I figure that with all your costuming/sewing connections, you know people who would appreciate it ... A.S. articles on alterations are exceptionally well illustrated).

And then there's all their articles on historic costume construction (with photos of the insides of the garments) ... yes, I MUST get a scanner ...