another Real Christian

[anotheranon]

Almost saved this 'til tomorrow so no one would mistake it for an April fool, but it was too interesting to save.

Think I've found another Christian leader that I can respect - a thoughtful, progressive sort of along the lines of John Shelby Spong:

I first heard about Davidson Loehr on Air America's Ring of Fire archive from 3/24, discussing the relationship between fundamentalism and fascism and now both seem to be creeping along in 21st century America.

Yes, that's right, I said "fascism" and "America" in the same sentence, but before you cry Godwin, read over his sermon, Living Under Fascism and his essay The Fundamentalist Agenda, in which he discusses possible historical/biological reasons why religious fundamentalists are all the same and why fascism may be human society's "default setting" - and why liberalism is still the better way to go.

What's more, he offers solutions - ways NOT to feed the machine and better ways for liberals to frame the "moral" debate ("enlarge our understanding of who belongs in our in-group").

I'm inclined to take this guy seriously because he combines a strong faith (which despite my own irreligiosity, I DO respect, if that faith is humane and come to sanely and thoughtfully) with critical thinking, and he's got an educational background in the philosophies of both religion AND science (unlike many fundies of all stripes who I suspect have never actually read their respective Good Books).

Seriously, they're both interesting reads. Please feel free to discuss here - I'd love to get a debate going.

Comments

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

VERY interesting reads. I agree ... Mr. Loehr obviously puts a lot of thought and research into what he says and he makes a great deal of sense. This, to me, is real faith, strengthened by questioning and criticism.

I've long perceived fundamentalists (of all religions) as using religion as a crutch/excuse for their personal fears/prejudices/desire for power (especially since many of their "holy" laws are not actually IN their holy texts); their "faith" has always stuck me as ranging from shaky to non-existent, since it is so easily threatened by others having different beliefs or asking questions (true faith is within the person, not outside worrying over what the neighbours are believing). To hear that those core behaviours are likely instinctive is not at all surprising; any good book on our cousin primates will give you a feeling of déja vu ... our family traits run deep (although there ARE "liberal" primates ... have a look at Shirley Strum's surprising study of olive baboons: Almost Human. And we all know about bonobos, right?).

When if comes to fascism, I can vouch for the fact that the U.S. (as a nation, not the individuals) has become the scariest of neighbours over the past few years ... the States used to be regarded as the good guys next door, but now we lock the doors at night. As a reaction, Canada appears to have gone into liberal overdrive, with legalization of same-sex marriage, renewal of the debate over legalization of marijuana, and a campaign for English language rights in Quebec being some of our current priorities ... this sudden surge in clarifying the details of our Constitution is a benefit, to be sure, but I am aware that much of it is being triggered by what's happening south of the border (according to surveys, many of Canada's youth are supporting same-sex marriage, not because they give a damn one way or the other, but because they see it as a way to get up Bush's nose). I'm pleased with the changes happening in my own nation, which makes it hurt all the more to read the news and see my American neighbours not only denied these brave new rights, but in danger of losing the ones they already have.

I'd ramble more, but my blood sugar is somewhere below the soles of my feet, and I think I should do something about that before I wander right off the screen. :p

[semmie17.livejournal.com]

I'm forwarding both of these articles to discuss with my students. Thank you!

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Equating fascism with the current politics in the U.S. is usually guaranteed to torpedo any argument you might make - even Loehr admits that it sounds like hyperbole. But he makes a nuanced and convincing case that the Bush administration is headed that way, even if the people aren't. I've been suspicious for awhile but still cling to the mindset that "It can't happen here". Now I'm starting to think that there's good cause to think that the time to worry is now!

[jlsjlsjls.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't apply the word "fascist" to the U.S. at the moment, but the seeds are there. So, yes, you're right, the time to worry IS now ... your future is at stake.

[timcharmorbien.livejournal.com]

Very interesting and thought provoking. I hadn't even thought of the increasing greed in the corporate world in terms of fascism, but I think he's dead on about their motives. We haven't surrendered to fascism yet, but I think it IS a potential danger that more people should think about.
His assertion that liberals need to stay in contact with the center in order to be effective also struck home, I think; many of the more liberal advances in our society were grounded in a basic morality, not necessarly religious in nature, that they were the right thing to do - - for human rights, for the constitution, for basic human decency.

Thanks for sharing! :)

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Not a problem. Do let me know what your students think - you tell me they are quite conservative so I'd be interested to hear their reactions.

[tommdroid.livejournal.com]

very interesting, it took me all day to actually get a space big enough in my timeline to read and it was well worth it! it is especially interesting to me as many Europen media has the last year compared the US not to fascism...but to communism. in old times they used to scare the children with the Russian coming to take them, now it is the American soldier instead.

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Re: the corporate world - parts of this smack of William Gibson's novels about how corporations, not governments, rule and how people fall by the wayside in the quest for the Almighty Dollar...frame the cause of poverty as bad morals and you have an argument that makes the rich (who are usually also the powerful) feel very good and right to screw the rest of us
:( Also, IMHO a lot of people still believe in the "American dream" - if you're good, pious, and work hard, you'll be one of the rich people, and that simply isn't so anymore - if it ever was.

I think liberals ought to point out that these wingnuts ARE nuts - and use words like "extreme", "fanatical" and "dangerous" while they're at it. Too long have progressives been trying to reason and play nice with people who WILL NOT do the same.

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

in old times they used to scare the children with the Russian coming to take them, now it is the American soldier instead.

It saddens me to hear that, though that fear is probably correct :( Problem is, our government still thinks of itself as "the good guys" - and there's nothing more dangerous than political/religious extremists who are convinced that they're doing the right thing :(

[timcharmorbien.livejournal.com]

I just finished reading 'Despoiling America' by Katherine Yurika (sp?), referred to by Loher in "Living Under Fascism", and it was also very interesting reading concerning the Dominionists. Of course, the fact that Pat Robertson and his ilk really believe the theocratic drivel they're pumping out is the most disturbing part of the whole movement to me. I have, of course, long suspected that the core conservative leadership of the fundamentalists consider themselves superior to Christians who are NOT fundamentalist or politically conservative - - one only had to observe how they took over the Southern Baptist convention a few years ago, replacing people in charge of Baptist schools, councils and non=profit organizations if they did not sign a pledge acknowledging the bible as being 100% literal and correct - - never mind that half of it is couched in alegorical language, or that the fundamentalists consistantly quote Old Testament passages out of context to support whatever asinine theory of the week they are espousing - - but usually they're too polite to say so out loud. I guess the idea is not to antagonize their fellow Christians until after the new world order begins, when the inquisition can really get off the ground. :(

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Sorry to get back to you so late on this!

Adding "Despoiling America" to my reading list. And while I think many Evangelicals DO believe their own tripe, I suspect that Robertson, Falwell and others may just be using religion as a tool. Or at least I hope they are - those who truly believe they're doing right with all these scary initiatves are far more frightening than cynical users :(