"The line is just for the wristband, yo."

[anotheranon]

Margaret Cho has a blog. Delightfully rude and funny! I especially enjoy what she wrote about Ann Coulter, a right-wing pundit I STILL haven't figured out (is she a phony, or a real phony? In other words, are A.C.'s paranoid accusations put out there just to muddy the waters, or does she actually believe all the insane stuff she says?)

Comments

[tommdroid.livejournal.com]

ROTFL! perhaps someone can come around and mop up the chopped pope? LOL!

[psquelly.livejournal.com]

Is she a phony or a real phony - Love that movie. Am debating about reading the book/story. I was once told that "Fred" (can't think of his real name, the George Peppard character) is gay. How would that work?

[flummoxicated.livejournal.com]

Ah, hiliarious! Thanks for sharing, fabulous!!!

Margaret Cho

[hadesgirl.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I actually found it very offensive! Of course, I'm Catholic, so I guess that explains a lot, eh? (grin) I don't agree with everything my church does, and I have a very open mind (as evidenced by the fic I write, eh?), but her monologue just hit a nerve with me. It was a little too rage-filled for my tastes. I guess I missed the humor.

Is that part about the condoms really true? I hadn't heard it!
That is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!!!! I mean - really!!!!!

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

? Do you mean the actor George Peppard or the character from "Breakfast at Tiffany's"? I don't know about the actor but I think the character was pretty straight - he does go for Holly in the end.

Re: Margaret Cho

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

I read it somewhat differently - a sarcastic rant against the Catholic clergy, rather than against the laity. And I am unrepentant in my opinion that the Catholic leadership should definitely be called to the mat for some of their more outrageous claims.

Is that part about the condoms really true? I hadn't heard it!
That is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!!!! I mean - really!!!!!

Yep. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=553&ncid=751&e=7&u=/ap/20031010/ap_wo_en_he/eu_rel_vatican_condoms) While I find the Catholic church's stance on birth control and abstinence to be unrealistic at best, making unfounded proclamations that condoms can't protect someone from AIDS is frankly irresponsible! IMHO just as science has no reason/means of "proving" any religious faith as valid, religion has no place making scientific claims to further their agenda either.

Re: Margaret Cho

[hadesgirl.livejournal.com]

The Catholic church is still in the dark ages in many respects. I had my tubes tied - apparently that makes me not so good in the eyes of my church because I have taken unnatural means in order to prevent pregnancy. Now, granted, natural birth control, (which is NOT the rhythm method, BTW, is very effective when practiced properly - I've attended the classes and know many people who practice it quite well and have prevented unwanted pregnancy for years) is not for me. I understand the psychological rationale behind it (which I won't get into here) -and I can see how couples' relationships can actually benefit from it, but I personally can't adhere to it. I don't want to wait until my body is non-ovulatory, I wanna have sex NOW!!!! (grin)

Even before we got married, Mike and I knew that we were not cut out to have kids - love them, they are great, but just not for us. This also flies in the face of my religion, but my personal view is that mankind has just about been fruitful and multiplied enough on this poor planet. I do not begrudge ANYONE wanting to have kids - they can be the best blessing and joy a woman and man can share, but I just never felt that way about my own life. And any couple who wants children and cannot have them suffers terribly from the inability to conceive. I can't imagine their pain - and I feel the greatest sympathy for them.

My mother-in-law's first child died during birth and they botched her up so badly inside that she almost died, and was unable to conceive again. She was in a coma for a week and never even got to see her baby's body. Then, miraculously, 15 years later, she got pregnant with Mike. That was a blessing straight from God as far as I am concerned. A true miracle.

Uh - I think I got off the subject of condoms a bit. Anyway - the church was wrong to publish that statement - very backward thinking. I think the church is railing against the lack of morality and sex without marriage. I rail against sex without caring. I'm NOT saying love here, I'm saying respect for the other person. I'm not against one-night-stands, or sex for sex's sake - sex is fantastic, wonderful, exciting and great. Sex and love are two separate concepts and if the participants are wise enough to know the difference and accept it for what it is and not demean the other person, where's the harm? Hey - you're giving pleasure to another human being, and being pleasured yourself. What more beautiful way to share our existence and make life a little better? It's a hell of a lot better than going off and doing violence to someone, you know? We are all here on this planet whether we like it or not - if we can make each other happy for a bit, more power to us.

Given the precepts of my religion, this thinking is wrong because sexual unions should not occur out of marriage. There is a lot of historical precedent for this belief developing, going back thousands of years, and while I do respect the viewpoint, I just don't agree with it.

Uh - still no condom tie-in. Ok.... if you have sex with a condom, that implies that you are having sex outside the marriage because why would you need one if you and your spouse are only sleeping with each other? I think the church saying it doesn't protect against AIDS was a misguided attempt to foster celibacy for those outside marriage, in a society which is rapidly coming to believe that sex is natural, good and health for humans, and lots of times there is no marriage involved.

Which brings me back to the comments Ms. Cho made - I guess her vehement swearing turned me off. I'm not a confrontational, violent person by nature, and her comments struck me as really, really angry. I tend to shy away from things like that. It's the strange, defective part of me that always wants everyone to play nice. Wimpy? Maybe. And maybe that's why in my RPG, my Catholic girl has denounced her religion and God as false, has allowed a Greek god to kill her, and is off somewhere in the Underworld now too! Talk about living vicariously through your characters. Hee hee - gotta love it!!! She is strong where I'm not, that's for sure.

Gigi

Re: Margaret Cho

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Re: the condom/birth control thing. My personal opinion: I think that in terms of birth control issues, the Catholic church is living in fantasyland to think that people don't have sex until marriage, or that sex between members of the same sex is wrong. I fail to understand why people take the proclamations on this subject by a presumably celibate old man as valid. But then, it's easy for me to say that - I'm not Catholic :P

Having said this, if the Vatican wants to say that they believe birth control and condoms are wrong, they are perfectly reasonable to say so, from the perspective of faith. Because religion deals with speculation over right and wrong, not over fact vs. fantasy.

However, in telling their flock that condoms don't work, they have crossed a line. Has the Vatican conducted peer-reviewed research to support this claim? I think not. And while many of the Catholic laity will, as you do, deem this statement silly and therefore ignore it, I do worry about people who believe more blindly, or who are perhaps not educated enough to review the evidence. They will take this seriously and put themselves in danger. I find it appalling that the Catholic leadership would make such a statement merely to support their agenda, when lives are at stake. As Margaret Cho pointed out in her (admittedly vicious) rant, condoms may break or slip, but they're not entirely useless!

And I'm going to ask a very sensitive question, and I hope you don't think me rude for doing so. You are clearly a thoughtful person who has chosen when and where you will accept the Vatican's rulings on different social issues. I am pressed to ask - if you disagree on so many issues that seem to be of such vital importance to the church leadership, why are you still Catholic?

If you prefer to respond to me privately, that is fine, but I'm not asking to be obnoxious, I'm genuinely curious!

Re: Margaret Cho

[hadesgirl.livejournal.com]

I think that in terms of birth control issues, the Catholic church is living in fantasyland to think that people don't have sex until marriage, or that sex between members of the same sex is wrong.

I agree with you 100%. But it's not that the church doesn't believe people don't have sex until marriage, it's that they should abstain from sex until they're married, because the sexual union is meant to be shared only by man and wife. Everyone should share this great thing, not just married couples. Sex is a powerful bond between husband and wife, but I also think it's for everyone, regardless of marital status. As for sex between people of the same gender, that's normal as well.

However, in telling their flock that condoms don't work, they have crossed a line.

Doesn't make any sense to me either.

I am pressed to ask - if you disagree on so many issues that seem to be of such vital importance to the church leadership, why are you still Catholic? I'm not asking to be obnoxious, I'm genuinely curious!

Not obnoxious at all! I think we know each other well enough not to take offense, eh?

I thought long and hard about why I'm still Catholic. I don't believe in some of the things we're taught, because I think they were initiated by men at a point in history where they made sense because of the very time in history they were at. Male-dominated society developed laws restricting women to the traditional role of child-bearer and mother. It was patriarchal - little mention is made of the women in Jesus' life because they were not allowed to be "full" participants like the apostles were. They were there (Mary Magdalene, Martha, Veronica, etc.) but they weren't as prominent as the males of the time.

One of the things which keeps me Catholic is that I believe in transubstantiation. The bread and wine used at Mass are not merely symbols of my faith, they really are transformed into the body and blood of Christ - and lots of people have problems with this and I understand and respect their viewpoints - my own mother doesn't believe it anymore and she was raised a strict Catholic. It takes a lot of faith to believe it. The words of Christ say "this IS my body" and blood" ...not "this is a representation of my body and blood". That is a basic belief. A lot of other things have gotten interpreted strangely by the church leaders. As a Catholic I'm supposed to believe the Pope is God's voice on earth and he is infallible in all matters relating to religion. I don't know how I stand on that - but I don't agree with the church's statement on condoms, sex, or homosexuality - I like all 3! We are a very sexual species - it is part of our most basic programming and it is natural, good and perfect. I think it's a shame when it's made to be unnatural and perverted and constrained. Unlike animals, which may have gotten things right, we have managed to put a choke-hold on our most basic driving force. Weird x 10. I just can't understand it.

A very important thing is that I believe (and this isn't specific to Catholicism by any means) is that there is an awful lot of good in the teachings of Christ. I believe in the Golden Rule. I believe in loving my neighbor, and forgiving them their wrongs against me as I myself would hope to be forgiven. That's only right. But these things are so central to a vast myriad of religions I can't say it's Catholic. The Golden Rule predates Christianity. The concepts of kindness, compassion and love arose before it. I say I believe in the teachings of Christ because my education in these areas and my beliefs were founded in Catholic upbringing and schooling. In my adult life I discovered the many other religions and belief-systems which also hold these tenets as core to their life-philosophy and I am fascinated by the similarities between them.

Hope I haven't come over as a fanatic bible-thumper. Maybe I'm an aberration - I love to write slash, believe in sex outside of marriage, and think homosexuality is normal. And I don't mind discussing all this religious stuff - it is enjoyable because it makes me think and that's good.

Do me a favor - if you are a spy from the Vatican, pretend I didn't say any of the above, okay???? GRIN