anotheranon (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
anotheranon) wrote2004-01-31 10:34 pm
anotheranon) wrote2004-01-31 10:34 pm
"the recent unpleasantness"
Whilst surfing around LJ tonight I found the ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
radicalsouth community. It's heartening to see even more proof that not everyone south of the Mason Dixon is a Bible-thumping social conservative.
The subject of Southern stereotypes and what can be done to combat them (and drag the stereotypical South into the 21st century) has been fresh in my mind of late. I've been reading a book called Still Fighting the Civil War that looks at the reasons why some Southerners still want to believe the myth of Gracious Living(TM) set out in movies like "Gone With The Wind".
Southern mythology is something of a pet peeve of mine. Since I moved north I've occasionally found myself having to have to defend where I grew up - I point out that some parts of the American South are quite cosmopolitan and becoming more so all the time, not everyone is a racist, not everyone marries their cousins at age 14, we have museums, theater, music, plumbing, school, etc. And this is all true - there are a lot of well educated, progressive, outspoken - even radical - people living in the former Confederacy.
However, I still admit that part of the reason I left Atlanta (one of those cosmpolitan Southern towns) was because of the hangover of "propriety" and conformity that still colors everyday interactions even now.
Understand - not everything about the South is bad. Southern people are the friendliest, most generous, laid back people you'd ever hope to meet - provided you are a conformist, and if you're not, that you politely conceal the fact so as to protect the delicate sensibilities of everyone else. This hypocrisy is what really drove me nuts! Good luck being an atheist down there, because everyone knows you simply must have fear of some deity in order to behave yourself. Good luck being a brainy, outspoken female because you'll be viewed as eccentric at best, dangerous at worst - or to the very traditional, you'll be branded (gasp!) unmarriageable. Don't even think of being a sexual minority. </rant> (And I won't address residual racism because I know I can't appreciate what it's like to feel that kind of discrimination).
The book is an interesting one, explaining the historic underpinnings of segregation, female submission, and religious evangelism. The author's view is that most of these social phenomena are tied up with a mythology that casts the Civil War as a great Lost Cause, God's judgment on Southern white manhood, who subsequently felt the need to subjugate black people and keep women in traditional roles to reclaim their feelings of superiority/favor with God, and painted these ills in paternalism/chivalry to make it more palatable.
I do think the author is awfully hard on Southern men, though thinking about what my dad was like, he makes some good points. One of my uncles still insists that the Civil War was really about States Rights and that the Confederate flag is a noble symbol [me bangs head against wall]. I think he just doesn't get it because he's never really questioned the framework he grew up in - he was shocked to find out I don't go to church.
At this stage, I like to visit but I'm not sure I could live there again. MD is delightfully secular and people shoot off their mouths about anything and everything. I like it :)
radicalsouth community. It's heartening to see even more proof that not everyone south of the Mason Dixon is a Bible-thumping social conservative.The subject of Southern stereotypes and what can be done to combat them (and drag the stereotypical South into the 21st century) has been fresh in my mind of late. I've been reading a book called Still Fighting the Civil War that looks at the reasons why some Southerners still want to believe the myth of Gracious Living(TM) set out in movies like "Gone With The Wind".
Southern mythology is something of a pet peeve of mine. Since I moved north I've occasionally found myself having to have to defend where I grew up - I point out that some parts of the American South are quite cosmopolitan and becoming more so all the time, not everyone is a racist, not everyone marries their cousins at age 14, we have museums, theater, music, plumbing, school, etc. And this is all true - there are a lot of well educated, progressive, outspoken - even radical - people living in the former Confederacy.
However, I still admit that part of the reason I left Atlanta (one of those cosmpolitan Southern towns) was because of the hangover of "propriety" and conformity that still colors everyday interactions even now.
Understand - not everything about the South is bad. Southern people are the friendliest, most generous, laid back people you'd ever hope to meet - provided you are a conformist, and if you're not, that you politely conceal the fact so as to protect the delicate sensibilities of everyone else. This hypocrisy is what really drove me nuts! Good luck being an atheist down there, because everyone knows you simply must have fear of some deity in order to behave yourself. Good luck being a brainy, outspoken female because you'll be viewed as eccentric at best, dangerous at worst - or to the very traditional, you'll be branded (gasp!) unmarriageable. Don't even think of being a sexual minority. </rant> (And I won't address residual racism because I know I can't appreciate what it's like to feel that kind of discrimination).
The book is an interesting one, explaining the historic underpinnings of segregation, female submission, and religious evangelism. The author's view is that most of these social phenomena are tied up with a mythology that casts the Civil War as a great Lost Cause, God's judgment on Southern white manhood, who subsequently felt the need to subjugate black people and keep women in traditional roles to reclaim their feelings of superiority/favor with God, and painted these ills in paternalism/chivalry to make it more palatable.
I do think the author is awfully hard on Southern men, though thinking about what my dad was like, he makes some good points. One of my uncles still insists that the Civil War was really about States Rights and that the Confederate flag is a noble symbol [me bangs head against wall]. I think he just doesn't get it because he's never really questioned the framework he grew up in - he was shocked to find out I don't go to church.
At this stage, I like to visit but I'm not sure I could live there again. MD is delightfully secular and people shoot off their mouths about anything and everything. I like it :)
no subject
Southern stereotypes are also a pet peeve of mine. Unfortunately, as I've seen too many times, some of them do actually exist. Dang rednecks - - y'all are screwing things up for the rest of us!
The author's view is that most of these social phenomena are tied up with a mythology that casts the Civil War as a great Lost Cause, God's judgment on Southern white manhood, who subsequently felt the need to subjugate black people and keep women in traditional roles to reclaim their feelings of superiority/favor with God, and painted these ills in paternalism/chivalry to make it more palatable.
One of my uncles still insists that the Civil War was really about States Rights and that the Confederate flag is a noble symbol
These are pretty common views I think, at least among some of the more conservative conformists (and you were dead on with them).
Southern evangelists are notorious for using biblical referances to support their social views, even promote them as divinely inspired, and there are still a lot of folks who seem to think that God particularly favors America in general and the South in particular over the rest of the planet. Check out the 'Dixie Outfitters' homepage for some examples of this kind of thinking. Among the confederate flag draped puppies (that's what the Civil War was about, puppies) is the expressed view that the South is the last bastion of true Christianity, which I feel certain would come as a shock to the rest of the world's Christians. They also insisted that no one could POSSIBLY be actually offended by the Confederate flag, and those who do complain are just trouble makers. Yeah, just because the Ku Klux Klan likes to march down the street waving a Confederate flag is no reason to associate it with racism! :P And for any flag wavers out there, you look stupid waving the Confederate flag AND the American flag. They don't go together, they represent different things. Pick one.
To be perfectly fair, not every yahoo waving the Confederate flag is a racist; many young people in particular view it as a symbol of rebellion. I'm okay with that attitude, but don't act all hurt and surprised because someone is offended by it; It may just mean rebellion or regional pride to you, but those are not the only things associated with it. It is naive to think otherwise, and ignorant to get belligerant about it.
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My sentiments exactly. You and Char are among the "progressive Southerners" I describe above, and I imagine y'all get as frustrated as I do after explaining for the umpteenth time how the South isn't all bad, and then something like the flag issue, or trying to force prayer into public school hits the news and you have to start all over again...
To be perfectly fair, not every yahoo waving the Confederate flag is a racist; many young people in particular view it as a symbol of rebellion.
I can grit my teeth and say "oooo...kay..." to this one, but it grieves me that these young people either 1) don't know their history, clinging to the Southern myth of "Johnny Reb" fighting for a noble cause or 2) are grossly insensitive of the feelings of African Americans who IMHO have a legitimate gripe against the history of the Confederate flag, particularly at it's use by the KKK and other racist groups.
I've had this discussion with my uncle for years, but I think he has his head in the mythology of the Old South and sees it strictly as a historic symbol of the southern states - I had to point out to him that the Klan and others have tainted it beyond innocent use, rather the way the swastika was ruined as a symbol by the Nazis (I'm not invoking "Godwin" here, I think it's a legitimate comparison).
Frankly, if these young rebellious kids were all that rebellious, they'd either create their own symbol or fly something that would really twist the Southern traditionalists in knots - a pride flag :P
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Which all goes back to my personal, pet theory: human beings are just stupid. ;)
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You know, I think this all-encompassing theory describes many, perhaps most, social ills!